A Rewarding Career in Court Reporting: Sitting Down with Cindy Sebo at the NCRA Convention

Then I found my flow, yeah, report a flow Now I run the game I don't chase it no more. From scattered to CEO got my BTM telling me where to go.

I am able to make more because my skill set is on the Steno machine. My skill set is not sitting behind a computer and like doing scoping. That is not my skill set. My skill set is writing on the.

Machine, not just surviving case to case. I built a business and I. I've.

Been all over the world for depositions, arbitrations. It's been an amazing career and no one even told me anything about it.

Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Court Reporter Podcast. I'm Bryn, your host.I'm a stenographic court reporter that graduated from New York Career Institute in 2015.And ever since, I've been working full time as a freelance court reporter with two out of those 10 years being in Supreme Court in the state of New York. If you're new here, this podcast is all about creating the official legal record.How to keep it clean, clear, accurate, reliable, and protect our mental bandwidth along the way through entrepreneurship and leadership and delegation. Today, I'm coming to you live from the NCRA convention in Bellevue, Washington.Well, technically by the time this is released, we won't actually be live anymore. But, you know, we are here now. So here I'll be sitting down with some really incredible reporters.You are definitely in for a treat today because we've partnered with Steno at a pop up podcast booth that they have in the expo hall. And today we are going to hear from Cindy Sebo, a court reporter with more than 30 years of experience who is certified in guess how many states.Yep, 16 states.I don't, I don't know if I've ever met any court reporters that are certified in that many states, but she's going to share how she did that and how we can do it too.Now, Cindy has worked everywhere from the House of Representatives in Washington D.C. on the Capitol Hill, to high stakes litigation and radio real time reporting.Don't tell anyone I told you this because, I mean, she wouldn't admit it openly, but I think she's basically one of those rare court reporting millionaires. And this episode will spill the beans on how she did it and how we can do it too.The main theme of this episode goes back to the heart and the roots of the beginning of this podcast. This is where it all began. Entrepreneurship. How we as court reporters never really intended to be entrepreneurs.We never really realized we would have to run a business. But that is what we end up doing.So we talk about how to do that effectively, how, how to build a team, how to avoid burnout, embrace real time and why even why pianists and left handed people might have something to do with solving the nationwide shortage of court reporters.

So let's get right into it.

My name is Cindy Sebo. Nice to meet you. I'm certified in 16 states.

I heard that you are working with steno a lot.

They're a fabulous company. I think the team here is sensational. I love them to pieces. They also really, really have their act together.And you can't say that about a lot of court reporting agencies. They have their act together though.

It's not easy to have your act together in this industry.

Definitely not.I mean there's a lot of competition and you know a lot of people, there's a lot of agencies, but there are just a few that you really would like to work for.

What makes you say that? And okay, first of all, do you, are you like, you're not employed by them, right?

No, we're in. Most of us are independent contractors. Most of the court reporters are in fact independent contractors. So I'm an independent contractor also.You asked why it was important for me to work for them. Well, they have a platform that is really, really great.Also because I'm certified in so many states, I'm able to, you know, pick up a lot of jobs through their marketplace. This way it allows me to, you know, I can schedule out and I can do work from home. They also have work, you know, in person.But because of being certified in states, you know, I live on the east coast.So if I want to take a California job, it actually works out great because I can plan a month out if I want to work, which you can't do that with a lot of places. So that kind of is great too.

How did you get into court reporting?

Many, many, many years ago, I dated a lawyer who was the court administrator. If you know, the court administrator basically is the boss of the court reporters. I was a speed typist when I was in high school.I was went to the state, I was like 6th fastest typist in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. So he said, cindy, I've never seen anyone type and move their fingers as fast as you. I think this would be a good career for you.Didn't know anything about it in school. No one introduced it. So he introduced me to the court reporters and I thought, hey, that's great, that's what I'm going to do.So Then what I did after I started working. I now go back to my high school and I do career day and tell them about court reporting because no one told me when I was in school. So same.

I have a very similar situation where I was working at a company and randomly they. Someone was like, you type so fast, like you should look into court reporting. And I really. Yes, like, same thing.And so I looked into it and found an article saying that court reporting was one of the top 10 most lucrative jobs where you don't even need to finish your bachelor's degree. So. And I was like halfway through my bachelor's, so I'm like, this is perfect because it also says you're.If you're good at piano, if you played piano like you did you play piano?

I did indeed.

Oh my gosh. How long did it take you to get through school?

Two years. That was my entire. I have an associate's degree in court reporting. My.My school, we had associate's degree, so I had a complete program, but I graduated from my class and the only one to graduate. So I was able to have jobs anywhere I wanted.And I had chosen D.C. and then I went to Washington D.C. i worked a little while in Washington D.C. then. Then I worked for the House of Representatives on the House floor of Congress.So, you know, I've been in my whole entire career in Washington, but you could go anywhere, especially with court reporting. I've been all over the world for depositions, arbitrations. It's been an amazing career and no one even told me anything about it before.

I ask about the House of Representatives and the Congress.For people who don't necessarily know about court reporting, which is a lot of people, maybe people who are interested in the career or who are learning about it for the first time. How much money would you say that you make?

Oh, my.

I know it's a vast.

It's a vast range. It can literally be from $50,000 to a million dollars a year. So depends on what kind of reporter you are, how busy you would like to be.But I would say most reporters could make in six figures.

I agree, absolutely. Unless it's part time. Like sometimes stay at home moms, they just want the flexibility.So they just do a few deposits, like one or two depositions a week, and then maybe they make around 50,000 a year.But for, for those who are full time and who are in the higher range, higher levels, real time and like high stakes litigation can make up to a million.

You said you can make really good money, but it Also takes a lot of work. It's not. You're not going to go out and all of a sudden make a lot of money. It takes a lot of work, a lot of effort.I've been doing this for over 30 years. My husband works with me. If you know much about court reporting, there's a career called scopist. And they're okay. My husband is my scopist.So I am able to actually make more money because of that, because I don't have to pay out a scopist. My husband is in the file with me daily, so, like, I could be working in Washington and he's remotely accessing into my file as we're doing it live.So that's why it's a little different scenario than other reporters have. So I am able to make more because my skill set is on the steno machine. My skill set is not sitting behind a computer and like doing scoping.That is not my skill set. My skill set is writing on the machine.

That is so key. I'm going to replay that like that is the highlight of this episode.Because I agree 1000% that all court reporters need to understand that, like, our skill is being on the machine, taking down the testimony. It is not all the admin that comes with it.It's not all the admin that comes with it that just slows us down and makes us burned out if we can find a way and which we're working on a way. But to help people to implement a similar system where, like, Cindy's husband is her scopist. I would call him probably a vtm.VTM is like a virtual transcript manager.

Exactly. And I have proofreaders too. So I have someone who proofreads, then I have someone who does the corrections.

So.

So I don't have the burnout that most people have, you know, because that's where you get burnout.You come to the finish a job, you come home, then you start working on the job, then you have to work all night, then you try to get up to go to the job the next day. I don't have those problems. So that's why I think it's a lucrative career for me too. But I have come around for a long time.It took a long time to get and develop a staff that I have. You know that my team is as important as my job. Right. Because what? Without my team, there's nothing. I can't do this job without a team. Right.So that's why I'm able to generate the income I can make because again, my skill set is on the steno machine and I do almost dailies all the time. Right. I do real time all the time. But there are hard, difficult jobs and without my team it wouldn't be the way it is.

Exactly.It's so important for court reporters to actually build your team, which is so amazing because it allows us to become leaders, to become CEOs, to step up into our, the highest potential that we have available. And it's just really empowering.

It is definitely. And I think that is the problem a lot of reporters have is their burnout because you end up literally replaying that job three times.You know, I don't have to do that. My husband also prepares my title pages. Right. So all. Okay, yeah, my vtm, I'm going to.

Call him, he just got a promotion.

And also what we've done is I have incorporated. Right.So I get paid through these companies and I end up, we get paid a salary and he handles all of that so I don't have to deal with all of the other sides of the business that can exhaust me, you know. So yes, I make really good money, but it's not like easy. I do a lot of high power litigation. I work in Washington D.C. i do a lot of government.I did worked on the Dominion case, the Smartmatic case. I mean I've done a lot of things, I worked in Congress.So it's taken time, you know, but I feel at a really honestly I've been doing this for 30 some years, probably within the last four or five years has really, I felt like everything is coming together because I have a really good team. They're with me sun up to sundown. They'll do everything for me.And you know, I like the people I work with, I like the reporting firms I work with and I think people really recognize that I'm gonna do a good job for them too because.

We have to be able to show up like if we show up just like so stressed with a million things in the back of our mind that we're forgetting, we're like, oh my gosh, what about like I forgot about this transcript that was due like so many deadlines. So many.Even if you, even if you have, let's say you have a team of scopus and proofreaders and you're still the one that is like coordinating everything, waiting to find out if they're available, waiting, adding all the data and you know, it's just like, it's too much. If you want to show up as Your best. And you want to like really reach the top level of what it's possible for a court reporter.I highly recommend the VTM system. Okay, now let's get to the House of Representatives and the Congress. Tell us about your journey in Congress.

I was hired many years ago. I'm no longer there obviously, but I worked for the House of Representatives on the House floor. I also did committee hearings.I was there during the time with Bill Clinton. So I worked on the impeachment of Bill Clinton. Also the recount in Florida. When the voting was going on in Florida. I worked there during that time.Christopher Reeve came in, he was asking for money in the Budget Committee. I worked there for like five years. And then I decided like real time was becoming more relevant in our industry.And I thought, you know, I think I really want to expand and do something with my career. So I decided to leave the House of Representatives. I started training like crazy for real time. I went to a lot of seminars all over the country.And then I became, you know, a real time reporter and I. That's all I do mostly. So now I'm still freelancing.

In the span of your 33 year career as a court reporter, when did real time transitioning from regular to real time?

I think like early in the 90s is when things started really becoming. It was early. Yeah, I was, I mean I. There was a pioneer in our industry. I would call. Her name is Anita Paul. She was fabulous.Anybody who's been working a long time would know her. She had seminars all over the country and anyone who really wanted to become top notch in their career would attend her seminars.So I attended a lot of her seminars. But back then that was so new. You know, some reporters had no idea how to even use a computer back then. So it's changed so much now for.

All the reporters who are doing regular reporting and not real time, but they have the potential to do real time and they want to, but they're scared.And I'm saying this because I'm asking on behalf of myself, because it's been myself and you know, many other reporters, we all share this similar fear of like, of course it's uncomfortable to display your whole screen in case you make a mistake. But even like the cleanest writers, you know, I finished in the top 1% of my class in terms of like speed and accuracy. Thank you.But still I'm not doing. It's so weird that my professors are like, why are you not doing real time? But it's because I never really had the push.Like, I feel like if someone was like, well, we really need you to do this, and I think you can do this. All we have to do is a test run, and I'm gonna show you how to do it. Like, how do you. If you don't have that.

Okay, here's the thing. There was a book a long time ago, it was called Writing Naked. Literally, think about that. I know.Like, how would you feel if you were literally writing naked? Right? That's what you have to think about. Right. You have to get over that fear.Because first of all, you're telling me, especially for you, you ended up graduating. That's a big thing to get through court reporting school. So once you get through court reporting school, you know, you can do a lot.I'm just telling you right now, for sure, with real time, you just got to get in and do it, do it every single day. You don't even have to do it to attorneys do. Bring your own little iPad next to you. Watch it on the screen for yourself.Just like if you were giving them. I mean, I'm talking about in depositions, not, you know, captioning, but bring your own little iPad. Watch it, see how it looks. Things are.You're going to see things that you're like, okay, I can fix that. I'm having this problem. But then you don't have to feel like, okay, tomorrow, oh, my God, the whole entire world is seeing my real time.You have already become comfortable. You know how it's working. You know the speed that it's going to come through.You can see where your issues lie or you have issues, and then what you can do is you can work on them.And then when it really comes time to share with attorneys in a conference room, you already have mastered that because you've been working on the screen yourself, watching it come up like you were an attorney watching it. That's what I would suggest.

I'm smiling because that was really good advice, like setting it up on a separate device and an iPad. Because I always do real time for myself. Right. On my own.

Absolutely.

But like, to set up a separate device, I think that's the key.

Right then also.

And it's so simple.

And it is. And here's another thing. It will help you also become familiar with. Let's say you have tech problems. Okay?You don't have to be having a fire with all the attorneys looking at you, trying to figure out a problem with it. Because literally, you're going to become an IT specialist when you have issues with your computers. Right.So if you could already work them out with before you're in an environment where everyone is, like, stressed waiting on you, you've already mastered. Okay, I know this problem. I know what happened. I've been watching this. I see why it's not coming up. Something's wrong with the Internet.I mean, these are all problems that, yes, will stress you out. But if you could rectify them before you go live, let's say it's going to be much easier because those are kind of. Also, it's not just writing.It's the stress of everything else that goes along with it.

So. So when you say that the IT and the troubleshooting, that is one of the biggest fears that I've had.Because troubleshooting things is, first of all, it's already something that I never want to do. I would always rather hire an IT person to troubleshoot something. But when you're on the record, that's even worse.

They're not waiting for you. They're not waiting for you.

Of course. So the point that you're making is that you deal with those things on your own, practicing.But even so, how would you, how do you troubleshoot when you're on the record?

What happens mostly is an Internet issue. And it's not usually even our fault. A lot of times it's at a law firm or I work at DOJ a lot. Right.So sometimes the connection is not so great at Department of Justice. So I say, counsel, I just need like five minutes or eight minutes to rectify this problem. Let's take a break and I'll come back and we'll fix it.That's all you have to do. Just as long as you remain calm, like you have your stuff together. They're going. You just have to exude confidence. Let them know you have this.Like I have on the back of my machine, I have like this little placard that says, don't worry, counsel, your court reporter's got you. Meaning if something happens or if something's not going well, I know what I'm going to do and I'm going to fix it for you.But again, do it before you're under the gun. Right? Practice beforehand. Watch what's happening, see what's coming up on the screen. Why is it disconnecting then? You already know how to fix it.And when it comes up, it's just going to be something you did every day. I arrived to my depots an hour and a half early every time.

That's the mindset I should have time.

Is late because here's the thing, what just happened to you?Those are the days that something is going to happen and you've already been stressed about trying to run into court or run into a deposition because then something happens. You put your machine together incorrectly or you put the cord in the wrong USB port or something. But because you're already stressed out.So I get there way, way early. I get everything set up.I like test everything, you know, I told you my, my vtm, you know, I call him to make sure he's got the sound and everything's working. And then what? I. Then I'll go have a cup of coffee. I change my shoes to look a professional shoes, you know. But I have the time to decompress.So if there is God forbid a dumpster fire, I have another 40 minutes to solve it. Not four minutes.

That is key. I think that's really a good lesson learned. Wow, thank you so much. I have learned so much from this episode. Thank you for joining.Did you have any other words you want to share? Anything for the court reporting community?

I will just say we need students. We really need students and I'm a mentor to a student. So if anybody needs anything. There's a lot of reporters out here who will mentor you.Don't think you have to do this on your own.Don't think that there's not people that will not assist you because we need people and we need people who are going to represent and represent well, not just someone who is going to go there and have no idea what they're doing. We need to be a class of professionals and we have many professionals here. Please become a court reporter.

I agree and I think I have so many ideas for how we can like raise awareness for the right people who play piano.

And another one is left handing, left handed.

Really?

We were at a conference once, 16 people, 12 were left handed. Now how many? There's not many left handed people normally, but they were all court reporters.So they started thinking maybe the other side of our brain because you're left handed, maybe that is something in court reporting that you know, makes it interesting for you. So maybe go after people who are left handed or like same thing. I played piano. A lot of my friends I knew played piano when they were younger.Those are the kind of things you need to look for and probably they would have entrance into the industry for them. Might be better because they're already used to this movement in your fingers.

Well, I think Cindy and I have just discovered how to help solve the nationwide shortage of court reporters. And I think, number one, we have to target the right people so that the dropout rate is not so high.Like we need to find the pianists and the lefties. And number two is the vtm. If.

Without a doubt, yes.

With if reporters have a VTM system that they're delegating and pushing the admin work away. Not doing all of it.

Yep.

Then you will be able to take more work and focus on what you do best, which is right on the machine or master your takedown method. And that will allow you to reduce the shortage of court reporters to take by taking more work.So thank you so much for listening to the Court Reporter Podcast. Thank you, Cindy, for joining us and we will see you in the next episode. Bye.

Bye. All.

Right.

Five night Five nine yeah. 6Am Coffee's cold inbox blowing up again Calendar's a guessing game where do I even begin?Exhibits missing, emails buried deadlines closing in Freelancer life look glamorous but this ain't what I pictured then Running jobs, chasing checks, spreading sheets everywhere different threads, different apps nothing's really clear Did I send that? Did I build that?Wait, who's covering Friday Burnout creeping in real quiet like it's here to stay I was working in my business never working on it Every win felt temporary Every system felt chaotic Then I found my flow, yeah report a flow Now I run the game I don't chase it no more from scattered to CEO Got my BTM telling me where to go Deadlines clear, money track systems on repeat Confidence built in every single heartbeat this ain't just a, It's a whole new role I went from transcript to running the show now my week is mapped out Nothing left to chance Billing done, jobs assigned I finally can advance no more digging through my phone for that one lost file Everything's in place now and it's saving me miles BTM got my back Every task in line Production moving smoothly Every job on time no more hope it works out now it's strategy I built a real business and it's finally me Now I'm working on my business not just stuck inside it Every system's intentional every move decided Now I'm in my flow, yeah, reporter flow Built it like a CEO Now I actually know from overwhelmed to in control with the VTM that's running my whole console Deadlines clear, money track, systems on repeat Freedom built into my schedule every week this ain't just, you know it's a whole new role I went from transcript to running the show. No more burnout, no more guessing. No more late night second guessing. Clear systems, clean handoffs, scaling up without the chaos. This is structure.This is power. This is taking back your hours freelance at the founder mindset shift. This is the upgrade. This is the lift. I found my flow. Yeah, reporter flow.Now I lead the business. I don't just go from scattered to CEO with the VTM that's built to grow my freedom. More clarity, more control.This is what it means to own your phone. Not just surviving case to case. I built a business and I run the space.