94 | Kamryn & Whitney Part 2 | The Veritext Acquisition: What Really Happened

Fresh baked cookies, babies in the lot.

Thirteen years later, look at what we've got.

Seems like we kind of hit our point where, ah, we can't keep up.

And I don't want to do that to court reporters.

I want court reporters to be able to keep growing cookies in a tin,.

Babies in the lot, knocking on doors with everything we got.

I think it doesn't come to an end for most court reporter owned agencies or self funding companies to stay relevant in this industry for the most part has been good feedback obviously.

Yeah.

But a couple like Random Death and.

Love and the twin Eggos.

Hey, hey,.

Hey.

Welcome back to another episode of the Court Reporter podcast.

I'm Bryn, your host and if you're new here, I've been a court reporter for 10 years.

Two of those years were in New York state court system, one year in family court, then promoted to supreme court court, and the rest of the eight years have been freelancing.

Today's episode is part two of episode 89.

My chat with Whitney and Cameron and their incredible story about how they built KW court reporting from the ground up.

Growing a small family run agency into one of Southern California's most respected court reporting firms.

They literally built a legacy with their mom's home baked chocolate chip cookies, which is so beautiful.

It's like a family built business and it turned into an empire.

But then it took a turn because they were acquired by Veritext and that caused it.

Definitely stirred up some conversation in the industry and everybody had something to say about it.

So I wanted to hear from them directly.

I didn't want to listen to any of the rumors.

I didn't want to hear the hearsay.

I want to hear directly from the source, from those who decided to sell their firm, why they decided to do that.

All the thought and all the effort that went into that decision, the backlash that followed and the bigger questions it raises about the future of court reporting.

So we talk about the court reporter shortage, digital reporting technology, and the difficult reality that agencies are facing as the industry continues to evolve.

This is a direct conversation and whether you agree or disagree, I think it's an important one to hear.

Let's jump right in.

Talk about why Veritex.

Like how did you come to that decision?

We both used to work for Veritex.

My, my first agency ever worked for, actually Whitney's first agency ever worked for.

And then she goes to Core and I get hired and we work with this woman.

Julene still did.

My God, if you see this woman, she's like phenomenal.

She's magnetic and I loved her and I worked for her.

She sells to Veritex and brings me with her.

And the years I worked with Veritex, I always loved working for them.

And to this day, Julene is still worth is still working with them, which says a lot.

And for us, when we started getting approached about selling, we're getting approached by a lot of big corporate agencies.

We wrote down like what our values were, what we want to like keep if we sell and what we.

What do we want to.

At least our legacy that we leave behind with the court reporters is that like, we did what we could for you guys as much as we could.

We took our agency as far as we could for you guys, and we felt like we left it in the hand of somebody that would be able to carry it on how we wanted it to be carried on.

And I don't think we met with any agency that was able to offer that.

We've been approached for years by different.

Agencies who've always like, no, it's not right.

It's not right.

And I do think in this new age there's so many things going on.

I'm sure all the reporters you guys have all experienced, I mean, there's just new technology coming out and also I think like deferred payments and these things.

That we were always self funded.

We didn't have the backing of, you know, the capital.

Like, we didn't.

We couldn't offer these things that people were coming in with.

Yeah, but I mean, so we were facing these new things and so there's definitely a shift in the industry.

I mean, things are changing and I think corporates need to know that things are changing and we have to be ready.

And so this, when we got approached this time and this was the first time we were like, I like this because this agency, Veritex, they really actually.

Care about court reporters.

And it was like, oh my God,.

We have a further reach.

We'll have more reporters.

We can offer more to our clients in terms of technology, what like new or anything but summaries and be able to, you know, log into a portal and get their calendars and old depots and summaries and things like that and things that we weren't able to do at our size.

And.

And there's definitely other agencies, I think, that people don't realize.

We didn't like what their future looks like, what they're going to do to the court reporters we did not go.

Into lightly and we knew what we sold it was going to be a hit to court poorers.

We knew it was going to feel like a betrayal, and so did that.

We did not make this decision lightly.

It was like we went in and sat down with these agencies and who we felt was going to give us the same feel that we could, but just like back us and had the resources and actually love the profession and.

Preserve it, you know.

And I do think there's other agencies out there that are using court reporters work product that are eventually wanting to replace us, you know, and they're building their technology around the court reporters work product.

And I think that being court reporters and agency owners, we definitely have seen and heard and been able to have this other window into what's going on where maybe core reporters don't always see it.

And so I think that's why reporters feel kind of so hurt.

They don't understand it.

We're like, yeah, I don't understand.

Veritech said of all the agencies are in your best interest, in all of our best interests.

And I think there's other agencies that kind of are fooled.

They're, yeah, good, but they're not a little.

Over the years, we've, like, you know, developed your guys's trust.

A lot of people felt like we betrayed them and going, we did not leave you guys high and dry.

Like we.

There was a careful consideration to this.

Like, we would never have done that to you.

And I mean, I hope that like.

We said, all the relationships we'd grown, that people felt like they could trust us.

Like, like we.

Listen, we're not betraying you.

We didn't go out and like, try to just make the most money we can about.

We're still.

And yeah, we're still in that provision.

We're still here fighting for it.

And I hope that if anything, any you guys can trust that we still have your best interests at heart.

And the company we sold you, we felt was the best one that will preserve the industry.

And I think that a lot of people who, you know, have had negative things to say or this backlash.

When I ask them, they'll write me something.

I say, have you ever worked for them?

Have you ever owned an agency?

Do you know anybody in that company internally or, you know, who do you know?

So, yeah, go.

You're just making these assumptions based on what you've heard, because I'm asking you three questions.

Have you worked for them?

Have you ever owned an agency?

Do you know anybody in that company in the upper level that you could ask questions to?

No.

So then how do you judge, how do you say, like they're coming down on us, some of people, when he's giving debt threats.

And what's so interesting is they don't say anything until you walked in our shoes.

Till you've owned your own agency, till you've grown it, till you've self funded, until you've been, you know, stiff by attorneys who don't pay trial bills.

And now you're coming out of pocket.

To pay these court reporters make sure they're paid on time.

It's like to try to keep up with these, these deferred payments.

These agencies are offering deferred payments.

I mean, which we value to us.

It's against the code.

I do not think it's.

We don't believe in and it's, it is against the code.

And it's just.

And if anybody who's doing unemployment is against the code.

But it's like we can't compete against these ages they're offering.

But we don't, we don't stand with like the first.

You don't stand as we went with an agency that's like ethical.

That was, that's what we chose.

And I, I don't, I don't understand why.

I mean for the most part it's been, it's been good feedback actually.

Yeah.

But a couple like random death risk.

So please feel like trade, like oh,.

Just sit down with us.

I go ask this question.

Ask them questions.

I go try to.

Have you ever owned a business?

There's one rumor, but about how they're pushing digital.

They're not.

Oh my God, it is so crazy.

The thing is, I don't know.

There is a real court reporter shortage.

And if anyone denies it, I don't, I don't know what to say.

Yeah.

There's just not enough.

So there's like this is last minute because it's two o' clock and it's for tomorrow.

I'm going to charge a $500 last minute fee.

Oh, it's in person.

On top of this.

Throw in another $300, I'll show up in prison.

It's real.

We don't have the power.

Corporate reporters have all the power.

There is a shortage.

Now a company like Veritags, I know they're bigger.

So it's like everyone.

Big, bad, corporate.

We don't like corporate.

But a big company has to keep the industry going.

I mean just like during COVID it was like, wait, we can't just let the industry die.

Like cases still have to go on until we Figured out how do we help our clients do remote depots and how do we swear them in remotely?

We experienced that, that change and so now it's like Veritex and other their agencies are experiencing.

Hey, there's just not enough courts.

But we can't let these.

We can't just tell attorneys your case cannot be heard or you can't have a depot reporter in one month for you that can show up in person at this time in this area.

So it is a big company that needs to find a solution to some depots and things where they, you know, they can't stop justice, they can't stop this.

And I think the wording is wrong.

I don't think they're pushing digital.

It's a solution to like, if you want it, you own a company.

We never come up with solutions and you look like the bad guy because you're like, I got to come up with a solution that you guys are going to like to hear.

But we can't let our clients down.

And so they're letting hey, go steno.

First, then voice writers then, and then digitals.

We've talked to so many of their salespeople.

They're like, nobody wants to send a digital.

It's.

It is like all we have available.

We have a hundred depots tomorrow.

These ones are work cop and it's legal.

We can send digitals and free up our systems for these.

And they are so big that of course they look like they're using.

They are using them as digital because of the.

Not with some loading.

Are there companies that you would say actually are pushing digitals or trying to.

Please us with AI?

Oh, yes, yes.

We feel really good now who we sold to because we're like our reporters take care of.

Nobody's trying to replace you.

In fact, they're just trying to make you better and your job better and easier and more desirable.

You want attorneys to still want court reporters.

And so I think the technology is only going to make court reporting better, better and their work product better and more efficient.

Where there's other agencies out there that aren't looking to do that, they're looking to replace.

And so I think that anybody that's looking to sell be really careful about what they plan on doing with your reporters and their work product.

You know, ask all the questions.

Okay, so let's talk about the future of the profession.

Talk about how, like, how do you see veritext doing that for the future of the profession versus others?

I think it kind of comes to an end for most people, court reporter owned agencies or self funding companies to stay relevant in this industry.

I mean you just can't.

Especially with like the deferred payment and the, I guess if you want to say it that like at our mid levels you just have your clients and you, you work in that range, that that's fine.

But if you want to advocate for core partners, we want to advocate for cors, we want to grow.

We were at our limit, right.

We couldn't keep growing.

So how do we keep advocating for them and be there for them?

We have to have a backing.

We have to.

And so if you go through the agencies, the smaller ones, it's like they're just not going to last.

We cannot keep up with these.

Well like a lot of these bigger agencies now have the funding to be able to keep up with the technology and offer these, these firms like hey, you use our core reporters and you get access to these things and it's.

Like that's what you need.

We couldn't offer that.

Let's be raised.

We couldn't do that.

But now I feel like hey, keep using court reporters, you're going to have all this access, you're going to get these things where you know, other agencies and different things.

I mean I think reporters, we could be a little stuck in the times.

You know, we just want things to be the way they used to be, but we can't, we have to be change and we have to be evolving.

And so work with agencies that are going to evolve with you and make sure you're protected.

And there's still, you're getting attorneys who still want to use court reporters.

Because if I use a corporate, get this, this, this I don't want to use so their technology that not as good.

So I think you need to kind of partner with people that are gonna be able to stay up with the ties.

And I think like we kind of hit our point where ah, we can't keep up.

And I don't want to do that to court reporters.

I want court reporters to be able to keep growing and grow with the industry.

And I think like verities can completely offer that like our, these reports and our staff, our clients can grow in this industry.

We're still here like answer questions, be.

There to support you.

Same staff, same reporters, same clients, everything just come to us.

So we're still here.

I recently saw a post on LinkedIn that I almost commented on to ask like, well what is the, like where are the numbers?

Where are the statistics?

And then I was like, wait, let me just do some research and find out myself.

What are the statistics about the shortage and the dropping rates and numbers?

So I just.

Yes, it is true.

That it is true.

Yeah.

There actually is a shortage.

And I think then I just remember the number step.

I'll verify and, you know, record it later and insert it.

But I. I remember the number like 74% drop in, I think Stenographic court reporter.

The NCRA published.

I thought it was like 80%.

Yeah, it was.

Yeah, something like that.

And it's like 23,000 court reporters in.

Yeah, yeah.

House right here in California now for the CSR is in single digits.

All competing for this.

Like two reporters.

It is.

And they send us promoting this digital.

There's no other option.

And that's what they have to.

I mean, I think that it's like.

I mean, we'll probably get beat up for this, but if we grew to that size, we couldn't let a portion of our clients just like, not carry on with your litigation.

Sorry, there's no discovery this month.

We have no reports.

But the thing is, it would trickle down to us.

Like, we would.

They would call us.

They would go, we really want a stand on corporate.

And then send them.

And then they would call and say, verify signal is in a digital.

So.

So.

But so now you're like, you know, blasted.

But we can't cover it either.

But we won't even digital.

But we can't cover it.

What's that client?

Or we can't cover that client.

So, yeah, I think there's just this idea that they're promoting digital, but they're not saving money.

They sometimes they have to pay the digital reporter, who does cost less, but then they send that to a court reporter to then transcribe with charging their rates.

And then it's like they're using a licensed reporter to banks ask.

You know, it's like it's a whole thing.

So it's like you're not saving any money at all by the.

By the time this transfer gets out, it gets cost the same amount.

So nobody's saving money.

But I mean, for the most part, it's been positive, but we have gotten some negativity.

I would say.

I hope we leave here today with you guys understanding that we should all like, really be a little more compassionate, a little more understanding.

And I do not think that until you've walked in our shoes, until you've owned an agency, till you've had attorneys not pay you for a trial, you guys go try starting an agency.

You gonna deal with the attorneys, you gonna deal with the court reporters?

Listen, we love this industry.

That's how we were able to stay in business for so long.

But like, I look back and go, it was almost like we were like little kids.

We walk in and go, who's cool?

Who's here?

Talk to me.

You're so nervous.

What Introduced me, like, made these like fake cards and we bought.

And remember, you got that.

So we were the appeal box because we didn't want to say we didn't have an office.

And we had an office that was so small.

First office, it was like $350 a month and.

And only one of us could sit in ahead of time.

The other one had to sit on the floor.

And we kept growing and we didn't give up.

We kept pushing.

We love the profession.

We love you guys.

We love corporations.

We've done our research.

You know what we're talking about.

And we're still here to support you.

We're still here for you.

Would not betray you.

We're still here for you.

And I hope you guys at least walk away knowing that for us, we made the best decision for you all.

For us, for our families and for.

Our staff and for our clients.

It wasn't a decision made lightly that we worked our butts out to get here and we had a lot of fun doing it.

And we're so weird.

How long did it take you to make the decision?

Well, God, it took a while.

Two years.

Yeah.

You know, we've been approached for a long time for a lot of different agencies.

And we kept saying no.

And this just making sure that our clients, our reporters, our staff, everybody was going to be taken care.

Yeah, we'd take all of our staff too.

So this was like, okay, you know,.

We felt good about this.

Everyone was going to be taken care of.

So for other firm owners who may be considering to acquisition with the big boxes or I don't want to say big boxes, but like, what factors would you tell them to consider to make sure that they don't just rush into a decision like because of maybe emotions or, you know, starting a business like signing it.

Yeah, yeah.

Being acquired.

So for us, I don't know, I guess we built like a family business.

So for us it was like making sure our staff, like, who was like our family are taken care of.

Make sure your poor's like, same rates.

Are we all be taken care of?

Are they getting work that these are all.

I don't want to just sell.

And not all Reporters get second off.

I want them to still be priority and all of our attorneys to get the same service.

So just talking to them about what this means for your staff or your reporters.

We didn't want to disrupt anybody's life or livelihood.

And nobody's livelihood was messed with.

And so, yeah, if we look back.

In a year, who would be happy with.

They go, hell yeah, I would be happy.

We left.

Everybody know better future.

Like, it's more movement for growth.

We couldn't offer that.

There was a blog post about KW being acquired by Veritex and the argument was that.

Did you see this?

I don't think so.

I mean, there's so many.

I mean, it wasn't anything like terrible.

It was.

The author of spinonymous commented on your comment about the post that everyone was arguing about.

Oh yeah.

His argument is that you wait 10, 6 months.

Yeah, 6 months, 12 months, 18 months.

Everything seems right.

And then it starts.

I actually marked that.

I go, we will check back in six months.

Yeah.

And by the way, first agency we ever worked for, we were telling you when, when she called, she left for court and said, hey, my twin, you know, she's a court reporter.

So I go work for.

When I started working for Veritex, like 15, 17 years ago, she was acquired by Veritex.

She.

So she brought me with her.

So I worked with them.

So I don't.

It's not like I don't have experience.

I worked for them for like four or five years.

And.

And to this day, the.

The woman who sold that agency who was like our ion, you know, she just like she's laying her mentor and she's amazing.

She's still with them and.

And she still.

She still advocates for them.

It's a lot of.

And to me, I always respected her and I loved her and we love her.

And so when I see her like, yeah, 15 years later and she's still with her and she's still promoting them and she's still advocating for them, she still does sales for them.

I go, that must be boy because Julie was like us, like, like a roadside court reporter had a person in small agency.

She started this.

Yes.

From that reason as a court reporter.

In fact, I met her in court and I started whistle for her agency soon after that.

Just amazing.

She sold to Veriti and brought me with her.

And then I was freelancing with Veriti.

But to this day, she's still there and she's still happy.

She still loves the company.

I go, I go, that's like, yeah,.

I go, that was my high hole.

That was who I neared my career off of.

And she is so happy with them.

I go, well, I love that, I love that.

And I actually have somebody that they can talk to about it.

And, you know, I guess, yeah, it's.

Definitely like, you know, it's reassuring to see that because I work with a lot of smaller agencies that are run by court reporters and haven't been acquired yet.

But I noticed that some of the jobs that they cover, that I don't know that it's actually a Veritex job, but it turns out to be like some of the best jobs.

And so that's, you know, I was like, okay, maybe, you know, these rumors are, I don't know, I just, yeah, I don't know.

I can't see them.

I would say just give it a try.

Don't knock it until you try it.

But if you, you know, if you're, if you're basing my rethink about him off of what you've heard and you've never actually tried it, then I'm like, get out of here.

You are getting a very good run company and you're getting paid when and when you want, how much you want.

There's full transparency.

So I just, I just think because it's just corporate, people don't like corporate.

There you have it.

That was Whitney and Cameron sharing their perspective firsthand on one of the most talked about acquisitions in the history of court reporting today.

Whether you agree with every point they made or not, I really hope this conversation gave you a deeper understanding of the challenges, the decisions, and the changes that are shaping our profession.

Next week, I'm joined by veteran court reporter Norma Alicia, whose remarkable 42 year career has given her a front row seat to the evolution of court reporting.

From unforgettable first day stories where she had to catch a ride on the side of the street, to why she's been hearing since 1982 that AI would replace court reporters.

People have been saying that for over 30 years.

And why she believes that the profession is stronger than ever.

If you're enjoying these conversations, please subscribe and share the podcast with a fellow court reporter, a student, or a legal professional that you think would be really happy to hear this.

And if you have a story, experience or any unique perspectives that you'd like to share on the show, I'm all for it.

I want, I really believe that all court reporters should share their voices.

Anything that you've learned over the course of your career.

As a court reporter, you have no idea how much of an impact you can have simply by sharing your story.

And if you don't want to talk to me, no problem.

Just send me your voice recording.

There is a feature on the website where you can leave a voice message and luckily at the NCRA convention I was able to interview three amazing reporters.

So stay tuned for those and I'll see you next week with Norma on the Court Reporter podcast.

Thanks for listening.

Bye.

No off of no business cards just a twin to hire a PO Box address made it look legit Closet size office only one could sit Mom's in the kitchen Been up since dawn Baking cookies from scratch what's the recipe?

Tin full of fresh baked cookies Kids in the back dads behind the wheel were all on track we walked through.

The door like we own the place Tried to look professional Straight face, straight face the partner said, so what are your rates?

We said, great question Whitney Cameron Fresh.

Baked cookies Babies in the lot knocking on doors with everything we got Spider man is running past the window Dandel chasing after him Keeping our cool, pretend nothing's happening Just two pros in a suit While our kids are outside on a Spider man pushing fresh baked cookies Chaos in the lot we built an empire up from the ground, y' all no cards for business cards mom by our side two new moms no backup, no ride Whitney has a twin yes,.

That's me hi, can you start tomorrow?

We said, don't even try Wait.

Yes.

Depots and trials we split every case Attorneys never knew it was a two twin race Same reporter start to finish.

What a gift Girl, that wasn't me Plot twist We walked through the door like we own the place Try to look professional Straight face, straight face the partner said, so what are your race?

We said, great question at the same time Whitney Cameron Cookies in a tin.

Babies in the lot knocking on doors with everything we got Spider man is running past the window again Dad's chasing after him we're trying to pretend like nothing, nothing's happening Just two pros in a suit While our kids are outside on a Spiderman pursuit Fresh baked cookies, chaos in the lot We've built an empire up from the ground down where did those kids come from?

That's strange, very strange we have no idea that's strange, very strange dad, what are you doing?

That's strange, very strange Anyway about those.

Raids Nies Fresh baked cookies Babies in the lot 13 years later look at what we've got Spider man grew up now he's tall and cool.

Dad still follows us.

That's just the rule.

Nothing's really changed.

Just.

Just the size of a dream.

Two twins and their mom.

The original team.

Cookies in a tin, Loving every bite.

We built this thing together and we built it right.

No backup plan.

Just cookies and love and the twin Idos.

Hey, hey.